So Game Maker open-source projects are useless?

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So Game Maker open-source projects are useless?

P-Star7

Sorry, I can't remember my previous thread about Game Maker, so I figure I make a new one due to a different focus/scope anyways.

So you know how there have been some open-source Game Maker projects like Hello Mario Engine and Sonic MAX? Are these projects useless for Godot now that Game Maker is no longer gratis? It seems such a waste to make these open-source projects no longer free/cheap because the editor they were made in changed price.

Somnivore

As I see it, it's less worthwhile to build on non-free platforms as the owner of that platform has incentive to milk you on your fondness of their platform and of the work you've already sunk into the platform; you're more likely to put up with their terms to keep the convenience the platform offers, which, if you're a very forward-thinking individual, is a point of contention when deciding to use the platform; not only do you, as the developer, need to deal with these terms, but if you create a platform on top of this platform, even if FOSS, you make the base platform more attractive for developers to come in and also be subject to these terms. That means you help spread those terms to people who are attracted to the base platform by your own labor. So you would hope those terms are something highly favorable to the future of yourself as a developer on their platform, and to the futures of those who your own platform will foster.

When a platform is fundamentally FOSS, its owner waives their ability to change the conditions of your usage of their platform, including shifts in price (as in this case there is none), giving you the peace of mind knowing what's to come with the weeks, months, even years you spend developing on top of their platform. All things being equal, this is more attractive than the alternative.

With that said, not all developers are so concerned of this, and can throw the money down to work with the platform they'd like to for other reasons; there are many pros and cons to a platform and sometimes the money invested is believed to be worth it. If your primary focus is creating Mario or Sonic fan games, I wouldn't imagine you'd be so concerned about your business prospects (esp. with all the squashed fan games out there), it seems more like a hobbyist thing and people are known to spend phat stacks of cash to appease their hobby desires.

Even then I think if you're going to develop a FOSS platform, you should stick with those who share your ideals; I think those people who develop FOSS engines on non-free platforms do so out of knowing how, for example, Game Maker works and perhaps not knowing there are any easy-to-use FOSS platforms out there like Godot, at least not by the time they invested a lot of work into creating their engine already. As stated, by working with people who disagree with your ideals in an imbalanced relationship in their favor, you inadvertantly help them further a cause that is against your own. YoYo Games will get, bare minimum, 100$ if you want to use the Hello Mario engine (or more realistically, you must resort to piracy.) In this way you incentivize non-free software.

P-Star7

@Somnivore said: As I see it, it's less worthwhile to build on non-free platforms as the owner of that platform has incentive to milk you on your fondness of their platform and of the work you've already sunk into the platform; you're more likely to put up with their terms to keep the convenience the platform offers, which, if you're a very forward-thinking individual, is a point of contention when deciding to use the platform; not only do you, as the developer, need to deal with these terms, but if you create a platform on top of this platform, even if FOSS, you make the base platform more attractive for developers to come in and also be subject to these terms. That means you help spread those terms to people who are attracted to the base platform by your own labor. So you would hope those terms are something highly favorable to the future of yourself as a developer on their platform, and to the futures of those who your own platform will foster.

When a platform is fundamentally FOSS, its owner waives their ability to change the conditions of your usage of their platform, including shifts in price (as in this case there is none), giving you the peace of mind knowing what's to come with the weeks, months, even years you spend developing on top of their platform. All things being equal, this is more attractive than the alternative.

With that said, not all developers are so concerned of this, and can throw the money down to work with the platform they'd like to for other reasons; there are many pros and cons to a platform and sometimes the money invested is believed to be worth it. If your primary focus is creating Mario or Sonic fan games, I wouldn't imagine you'd be so concerned about your business prospects (esp. with all the squashed fan games out there), it seems more like a hobbyist thing and people are known to spend phat stacks of cash to appease their hobby desires.

Even then I think if you're going to develop a FOSS platform, you should stick with those who share your ideals; I think those people who develop FOSS engines on non-free platforms do so out of knowing how, for example, Game Maker works and perhaps not knowing there are any easy-to-use FOSS platforms out there like Godot, at least not by the time they invested a lot of work into creating their engine already. As stated, by working with people who disagree with your ideals in an imbalanced relationship in their favor, you inadvertantly help them further a cause that is against your own. YoYo Games will get, bare minimum, 100$ if you want to use the Hello Mario engine (or more realistically, you must resort to piracy.) In this way you incentivize non-free software.

So, all of Hello's code is now a waste as far as open source goes?!? That's terrible!

SolarLune

Eh? Why not just download an older version of Game Maker to open the project files?

Somnivore

@SolarLune said: Eh? Why not just download an older version of Game Maker to open the project files?

That's a temporary solution; eventually core OS functionality improves to a point where old software, if not maintained, fails to run correctly; compounded, as the software ages, new editions of it get bug fixes and new features, you're constantly being left in the dust with no hope of help. Maintainers of add-ons to that software are pressured to update their software as well, to keep up with the newer editions, so you're left in the dust twice if you choose to use the older software, unless the maintainers choose to support multiple editions which they're unlikely to for long, opting to favor the newer, more feature-rich environment not just for the fact that more users are likely to be interested in that and interested in using the add-on for that, but it's also just nicer to have those extra features in general.

As time goes on, the feature updates become impossible to ignore. There was a time where iOS and Android did not exist, and if you were to use software from that time period, you wouldn't be able to publish to those platforms; even afterwards, there's times where software just doesn't have this ability at one point in time, but later it does. A new console comes into existence, what will you do with your old version of X-software to be able to target that platform? Some new technology comes into existence, like Vulkan, and it turns out to be a hit, but you can't take advantage of it because your software is out of date and has no concept of it whatsoever. A new standard comes into existence, like HTML6, and your outdated software doesn't understand how to work with it and it isn't compatible with your HTML5 code; alternatively, newer versions of iOS, Android, or just about anything else are incompatible with how your engine is handling them; you're stuck, you have to upgrade to publish, you can't expect your users to downgrade to play your game, there are just way too many games in existence for them to bother; they will (reasonably) consider you the problem, not them. Even if your game is PHENOMENAL, it's a huge barrier of entry for the vast majority of gamers, even the more technical ones (not to mention the security problems that might introduce.)

That's just platform-related. What happens when a new edition of that software introduces a killer feature that you've been dying for and which will make your design process infinitely easier? You see my point.

You're better off just not dealing with that problem. YoYo Games developed a trap, your best hope is to avoid it.