Talk about anything: Page 141 - Godot Community Forums

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Talk about anything

cybereality

Compute shaders are also a big advantage, especially for complex non-gaming code.

Pixophir

OpenGL has compute shaders since 4.3. It also has rudimentary concurrency like memory barriers for shader stages. Anyway concurrency a thing in the application. But a single OpenGL context belongs to one thread, so there can only be one render thread, while others might prepare data to shove in. So that's definitely a limitation specifically when the CPU is the bottleneck, which it often times is.
The Blue and the Red Book makes some suggestions to use concurrency in OpenGL as well as examples for using compute shaders.

Pixophir

Ray tracing APIs: looks like the last word has not been spoken yet:
AMD pushes HIP RT, Intel proposes oneAPI, Nividia ... have they ever followed any standards 👅 ? So, when it comes to real time ray tracing, might be that Vulkan has outlived itself just like OpenGL.

Not 100% serious, ofc :-)

Kojack

My favorite patent has to be this one: https://www.freepatentsonline.com/3216423.html (warning: includes low quality naked woman drawings if you view the PDF)
"Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force"

A woman lies on a spinning platform with a net between her legs, to make giving birth easier.
It was published in 1965.

some_lame_kid

Kojack that is horrifying

cybereality

Kojack "Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force"

OMFG

Kojack

some_lame_kid
Horrifying for the poor staff who have to clean the room afterwards.

Bimbam

I finally cracked and ordered a RTX 3090 and a Ryzen 5950X.

This is largely going to live in my work server, but I'm thinking it would be wrong not to hook it up to my TV and game on it too 😃 (on Linux of course)

My day-to-day gamedev desktop will continue to be a 1080Ti until 40xx has come out and seen lots of reviews. If I do upgrade later, the 3090 becomes my Godot card ^^

Megalomaniak

Bimbam I finally cracked and ordered a RTX 3090 and a Ryzen 5950X.

I finally cracked and finally moved from windows 7 to manjaro after getting a deal on a rx 6600 xt. Perhaps one of these days I'll finally get to tinker with some HW raytracing.

Audiobellum

cybereality Yeah, I think someone made a similar argument against copyright rhythm, harmony and melodies in music( these things obviously include mathematics). Now I won't be able to crunch these numbers but you probably can( or you can "cheat" by using Google), so I'll give you a hint on how limited musical possibilities are. In 12-Tone Equal Temperament(or 12-TET), they're only 12 notes( that repeat themselves up/down various octaves); most of western music is made in 12-TET. However, most songs aren't going to use all 12 notes( aka the chromatic scale), as that would sound "ugly". Instead, most songs would just use scales that only consist of 5 to 7 notes from the chromatic scale. Now I could talk about the differences between scales but, I'll argue that they're mathematically relevant as they're just different modes of each other (the Minor scale is also the Major starting at a different point, is also the Locrian scale starting at different, etc). The first note in any given scale determines what key it's in, so there is a key per note and they're only 12 notes in 12-TET. Harmony consist of playing multiple notes all once, this is usually done in the forms of triads or power chords when it comes to Rock/Metal music. When chords are placed in a sequence, that's a chord progression. When a series of notes are placed without chords, that's called a melody as oppose to an harmony. Now they're multiple voicings of chords but, they're all types of chords that are typically considered "ugly" sounding like the Diminished chords or Augmented chord so they don't get used a lot (though I expect to hear them more in moves). Knowing all of this, does the possibility really seem endless? I heard that it isn't. Now I haven't talked much about rhythm but, that's because I haven't studied that part of music on my own; it's the easiest part of music to grasp by just hearing it.

Audiobellum

I spent most of the today sitting down in in river with other people. Many of them could swim but, I just had to sit in the water; it was okay. I opened my eyes under the water and it didn't burn like sea water usually those; still could still any properly from underneath.

cybereality

Ray tracing on AMD is really slow. And it doesn't work on Proton yet, so there is very little native content to try on Linux. I installed Windows to test it, and it was basically unplayable. Only the AMD sponsored games really worked (Dirt 5, Godfall) because they use more conservative RT effects. On stuff like Cyberpunk 2077, it's almost impossible to even get 30 fps.

Megalomaniak

cybereality because they use more conservative RT effects

Hey, so long as it enough to get some real shadows in place of cascades.

cybereality

Megalomaniak Hey, so long as it enough to get some real shadows in place of cascades.

Yes, you can. However, of the games I tried Godfall was the only one with acceptable performance at the time of launch. Most of the bigger games (Cyberpunk, Metro, etc.) were optimized for Nvidia and, while technically supported, were unplayable. AMD RT is okay, visually it is the same (same API) it's just that the solution they have is way behind Nvidia. AMD uses more of a general purpose programmable hardware, rather than Nvidia's dedicated chip. In theory, AMD's solution would be more flexible, but it is not as mature as Nvidia. In the next gen or two, I expect they will be comparable. Here is an example of the graphics (this is on Nvidia, but the graphics are the same). Notice that things do look better, but it would be hard to notice without the side by side.

Nerdzmasterz

Is there a way to get real revenue from mobile games without slapping a bunch of ads or premium content on it...? Pardon my venting, but I have played multiple mobile games that have more ads than gameplay, or requiresgrind to get anywhere without paying. I even know a company by name which I avoid because their games are riddled with ads. There has got to be a better way to do this.

fire7side

Nerdzmasterz Is there a way to get real revenue from mobile games without slapping a bunch of ads or premium content on it...? Pardon my venting, but I have played multiple mobile games that have more ads than gameplay, or requiresgrind to get anywhere without paying. I even know a company by name which I avoid because their games are riddled with ads. There has got to be a better way to do this.

The puzzle games I play let you basically finish the puzzle before putting up some ads, after you watch an ad before you start. I've gotten good at turning them off at precisely the right time, so it's like 10 seconds to start playing and just turn it off at the end. That's mainly scrabble, free cell, jigsaw puzzle, flipping legends(not really a puzzle), couple more. Seems about right to me. I've never clicked on an ad except accidentally. It took me awhile to figure out some of their tricks, like putting up fake "x" for close that actually opens a web page. They post the real close a few seconds later in a different location. Part of the game in a way. You can generally just buy a no ads version for a reasonable cost but I'm cheap and used to turning them off at the right time. I think the revenue is pretty decent if you have a few games going. Some people just don't know when to quit. I would definitely try it and see. I haven't come up with anything yet to experiment with. Also, I don't really need the money so it kind of seems like a lot tax work.

cybereality

I think for the most part it's games that are free with paid DLC that do well (if you don't want to use ads). Games that are paid only are hard to sell, unless it's a mobile version of a known and popular IP.

Pixophir

@Megalomaniak I have the same card (paid a bad price last November and there was no choice, actually) and Debian Sid. I don't play any of the mentioned games.

Programming wise, we must distinguish between RT for game effects done with an api that addresses hardware ray-tracing or done with the embarrassingly parallel compute capabilities. How it is done on the card in the end, i cannot say. Actually, for programming, it doesn't matter. But any of those techniques works on the 6600 XT with the open source drivers, although I have only tried simple tutorials for now.

If it is about learingn how to program ray- or path-tracing it is as good a fit as a the highest latest best grrrreatest, maybe better for identifying performance issues. Otoh, if you want to play the latest AAA titles in 1440p or higher and 144/s frames, then you may have to reduce your expectations with the 6600 XT.

Speeding things up for development is best done by reducing resolution. But anyway, we must set up our development environment, choose an API, work through the first steps and so on. I'd join you in this, but right now I have no time.

Megalomaniak

cybereality Yeah, but godfall does more than just shadows via RT, no? I think the Tomb Raider game that featured RT does just shadows. So it might be a better example of what I mean. Another thing I'd want to experiment with there would be rendering those shadows to a quarter rez buffer and use upscaling just for the buffer.

Tomcat

On the subject of licences:
The Machinery Game Engine Appears to Have Shut Down

Kojack

Tomcat
That's one's pretty bad (the situation that is, never tried the engine).
People paid for the engine in early access, now it's shutting down and everyone has 14 days to delete all copies of it or they are violating the EULA.
(The EULA was modified a day or two ago to cover that)

It's very vague and sudden. Some are speculating this is a defense against possible legal action from Autodesk.
There used to be a game engine called Bitsquid. It was used in games like Magicka. They got bought by Autodesk and renamed to Stingray and made a subscription based engine. Then it got shut down. Some of the devs left and formed Our Machinery, making The Machinery engine.
So the conspiracy theory is there may be a legal problem between the devs and Autodesk, meaning they had to shut the thing down fast.
But that's just what I read, who knows.

Having an engine abandoned is one thing. But finding out (with 14 days notice) that you can no longer legally release a game you've been working on for over a year is really bad.

Pixophir

Pff. Can't happen to me :-)

Of course I ask myself who spends money in advance for a thing like a proprietary game engine, with all those ready engines, frameworks, APIs and what not around. There's a plethora of examples, some really good (hello Godot), in the open source repositories. I even have the feeling that open source engines like lumberyard/cryengine/amazon_open3d have difficulties getting a foot on the ground because of the let's call it saturation. Not sure what they did so special that others have not accomplished before, but when what Kojack says is true then, then others where at least unsure of that also ...

Let's focus forces on the engine before us, or not ? 😎

Btw., and following my usual agenda, but isn't that an invitation to be ripped off when people submit to an EULA, any EULA ?

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